A No-Bullshit Conversation about Sex and Gender
Spiritual teacher Sabrina M. Scott shares her perspective on embodying feminine and masculine energy, gender-affirming surgeries and what the tarot can tell you about Tinder dates.
Here at Yes, Misstrix, I often have the pleasure of speaking with amazing people doing fascinating work in the realm of sex, sensuality, sexuality and desire. This week, I’m sharing a two-part interview with Sabrina M. Scott, who masterfully weaves the themes of gender, sexuality and energy into her work as a spiritual teacher, tarot reader, author, artist, podcaster and business coach. Please enjoy part one of this raw and real interview.
Yes, Misstrix: I always like to kick off the conversation with a quick intro. Please tell the readers a little bit about yourself and how you became the No-Bullshit Spiritual Teacher.
Sabrina M. Scott: I've been doing witchcraft and magic stuff for more than 20 years now. I grew up in something called Spiritualism, which basically means you grow up doing seances and talking to spirits. For me, that stuff has been an incredibly mundane aspect of existence forever, and so that's infused my approach to witchcraft with an awareness of energy work and an awareness of mediumship.
There is a lot of bullshit in the spiritual space. Most spiritual teachers, in my opinion, are full of crap and give the work a really bad name. And I think sometimes spirituality has a bad reputation for good reason because a lot of people are just fluffy idiots who don't really know the difference between an orange and a lemon. It's a very odd what sometimes happens in spiritual spaces.
What I wanted to do with my work and presenting workshops on tarot and witchcraft—and now I'm kind of branching out to talk more about feminine energy and what does that mean, blah, blah, blah—I wanted to fill in this space where a lot of smart people, like university-educated people who work in medicine or as therapists, could be interested in spirituality while also wanting something intelligent. A lot of my clients are therapist or academics, actually, and they want something that is not just vapid ridiculousness.
I'm also finishing up a PhD in the philosophy of science, and through that, I'm talking about witchcraft as a method of trauma healing. That puts me in a unique space where I've got this 20 years of practical hands-on experience, but what I do is also very infused with that academic historical knowledge as well. So, I'm just a unique snowflake, I guess [laughs]. That’s the short version.
YM: That’s definitely the short version because you teach on so many topics. Can you talk a little more about your work related to sex and gender?
SMS: So, as you know, I just started podcast. I talked a little bit about gendered energy in one of my recent podcast episodes, which was one of the scariest things to share. I'm someone who's very ‘whatever,’ and I'll share most things pretty openly, but for me, my story with gender has been kind of complicated, and I'm only now just starting to talk about it. I identified as non-binary for 20 years, and the last 10 years of that was publicly. Before that, it was just privately, but last year, I decided to switch fully over into she/her pronouns and just embrace that.
And actually, I haven't shared this before, but I feel comfortable telling you about this, even though it is going to be broadcasted everywhere: I'm pretty sure that original alienation from being gendered femininely actually originated from sexual abuse I experienced at the hands of my mother. I was just like, ‘feminine equals bad equals unsafe equals bad,’ and so I've rejected it fully for 20 years, which is a long fucking time. But over the past, maybe, five to six years, I was kind of dipping my toes into feminine energy and exploring what that’s all about.
And over those explorations, I started to really see the gendered-ness of energy in a different way. That has been really, really evocative. So, I'm starting to teach about that, and that is what you're seeing in some of those offerings around feminine energy. For example, I've got a master class on Witchcraft, Feminine Energy and Plastic Surgery. That's something I taught last year, and it's available for anyone who wants to buy it. It's super good. I feel stoked about that class.
For my big courses, Magic Without Bullshit and Tarot Without Bullshit, I actually talk about energy in a very gender-neutral sort of way. It's totally non-gendered, the way that I talk about magic and witchcraft and manifesting and all of that. I do think there's a place for gender, but I've just started expanding into that lately.
YM: You also have another master class in mind that dives into sexuality. Tell me about that.
SMS: I’m thinking about teaching a master class on Sex, Love and Tarot because I think that a lot of people are interested in this topic. First of all, we all want to have a love life. We all want to have good sex. I think most people do. Obviously, there are some people who are asexual, and that's cool. I respect it. But I think a lot of people do want to connect with other people, whether that's just emotionally, romantically, sexually.
So, oftentimes, people will go to the tarot to figure out the situation. Do they like me? How do I know if they like me? What's going on? The reason I'm teaching that is because a lot of people don't know the right questions to ask. They'll ask, ‘Is he going to propose to me next month? Does he like me more than do I?’
The class that I'll eventually be doing involves flipping a lot of those typical scripted questions on their head and teaching people how to approach reading tarot about love and sex in the first place. I think most people do it wrong, and the most common thing that I get clients asking me about is love life stuff. It’s the most stressful thing for everybody. And there are, of course, tarot cards that are associated with romance, polyamory, sex. I think most people don't realize that because it's not really there on the surface.
We can use what we know about the tarot and apply those messages to contemporary experiences of love, sex, gender, romance and dating—whether you’re single or you’re on Tinder. There's also a tarot card for Tinder, but a lot of people don't realize that. I've recently decided there's a tarot card that I think references squirting. You can really get deep into these things if you decide to be creative about how you see the tarot.
And so, that's why I'm excited to eventually teach about this because most people are just like, ‘Oh, it's the Queen of Pentacles. That means it's a rich woman.’ It's like, ‘No, no, let's go a little bit deeper into this.’ For example, a lot of people don't know the difference between the Two of Cups tarot card versus The Lovers and which one is actually the better one to get in a love reading. It's usually not what people think, so I’m excited to share things and talk about this stuff.
YM: That’s excellent. I also wanted to dive into how the themes of gender and feminine energy play into witchcraft. Can you talk a little bit about how those themes come together in your work?
SMS: Yeah, absolutely. The first thing I want to say about that is, even though I'm becoming more interested in teaching about feminine energy as I've begun to embody it more in my personal life—and I’m oodles happier since I've done that, which has been super cool to see—I am still very strongly against the idea that ‘witch’ equals ‘woman.’ This is a common trope that we see literally everywhere, and I think it's actually one reason that some folks in the witchy community don't like me or my work. Because I'm so like, ‘No, feminist does not equal witch; witch does not equal feminist.’
Those two things don’t really have much to do with each other whatsoever as far as I'm concerned. And ‘witch’ is not just shortform for ‘woman.’ Those have nothing to do with each other whatsoever. I don't think that women have an easier time being witches. If you look at the history of magic, if you look at the history of witchcraft, everyone of every gender has practiced this work, just maybe in different ways. Witchcraft is also very trans. It’s not a gendered practice.
Obviously, people are going to practice in different ways, so a big part of me teaching about witchcraft and the way that I teach about it, even though I'm moving more into that gendered space, is to teach it in such a way that it is accessible for people of any gender. I really think that these tools in this way of life like should be available for everybody, regardless. I don't think that this should be a women-only space, and I do not think—this is going to sound counterintuitive, but I don't think—witchcraft has anything inherently to do with female empowerment. And that's something that almost no one wants to hear. Not to rant, but I feel like a lot of time people just want to say, ‘Oh yes, I'm a witch,’ and then fast-track to feeling like an empowered woman or whatever.
But it doesn't really work that way just by donning that label. It doesn't mean that you really know how energy works or how magic works or how to manifest anything to be able to change your life. You can call a rose or an apple literally any other word, but it would still be what it is. And so, if someone is a disempowered miserable person, they can call themselves a witch all they want, but it won’t do anything. They're going to be that same old miserable lump. I think, actually a lot of witches don't understand that.
My first podcast episode is called, Why Are So Many Witches Miserable? And I talked about that because I think it's so fucking true, and witchcraft is ultimately all about creating the life that you want. And yet, so many witches are fucking haters. What is that about, you know what I mean? So anyway, I could rant forever, but I'll leave that at that for now.
Actually, one more thing I want to say about this is that part of the reason why I'm a little bit hesitant to be sharing more about gender and energy is because I think a lot of contemporary women in the witchy space tend to be very queer. They tend to be very activist-y and very open-minded in their beliefs, which I think is great. But the open-mindedness often has a limit, and that limit is, ‘Feminine energy could be a good thing to tap into.’
I think a lot of women these days—and I don't know if you agree with this—are very against this kind of old-school conception of what feminine energy is really like. There's this whole female empowerment thing that’s girlboss. It’s powerful, independent. And fair enough. I have my own business, and I run my own life. I'm independent, no one pays for my life.
But at the same time, I think there's a time and place for that. And for me, the time and place for that is business, but in my personal life, it's very, very different. I don't want to be a girlboss in my personal life. I want to lean back and chill and have people do stuff for me. To me, that’s what embracing a feminine energy feels like in a dating and sex context. I don't want to be pursuing any man. Fuck that. Can I pursue my clients? Absolutely.
Releasing a podcast and writing the thing and doing, doing, doing, doing—that’s what it’s like to be in this productive, masculine energy. I can do my work and manifest that way, but there's another form of manifestation that involves leaning back and receiving. I think a lot of women today don't want to hear that, and to be honest, neither did I 10 years ago. So, I get it. On one hand, I get it. But on the other hand, now that I'm on the other side of the mountain…it’s way better over here.
YM: That’s so interesting because girlboss energy—at least the way it is often described—is masculine. It’s about being a go-getter.
SMS: Absolutely, which I think can be cool in its own way. I'm not against the girlboss thing. I actually think there's been a lot of backlash against it that, to me, comes off as incredibly sexist. It's just like fuck that, you know, I find that ridiculous. But the flip side is being able to step into different aspects of our energy in different aspects of our life.
We all have both. We all have masculine energy; we all have feminine energy. Well, we probably have a kind of gender-fluid energy. Not to go on a big rant, but if you look at the history of witchcraft and magic a little more than 100 years ago in England, the popular conception of ‘What is Magic?’ was about finding a way to balance those internal masculine and feminine energies. That was the thing that everyone was trying to do more than 100 years ago in the magic space. So, none of this is really new, but interestingly, I find a lot of folks today don't want to address the gendered essence of anything. People are kind of afraid to touch it, which is interesting.
YM: It definitely is. I was actually just interviewing a professor who teaches classes that touch on themes of gender identity and sexuality, and he said that his students right now are really interested in trans issues, but they don’t have the vocabulary to be able to do so effectively. He said that if you push on them a little bit, they shut down because they don’t want to say the wrong thing. It’s this thinking that if we don’t talk about it at all, we don’t have to be embarrassed by saying the wrong thing.
SMS: Absolutely, and on that topic, one thing I wish people also made more space for is the reality of difference, the reality of different experiences around gender. So, even my story, I'm sure makes no sense to most people. I've had multiple plastic surgeries, which I considered to be gender affirming surgeries, but no one finds that radical because now I'm cisgender. But I actually find it incredibly radical.
YM: Would you say that having those surgeries helped you on your journey?
SMS: Yeah, 100%. For me, it was. And I'm sure I'm going to get roasted on the internet for saying this, but to me, it actually was a gender affirming journey. Honestly, having that the physical embodiment of how I felt, even though I was born like with a vagina, it's still a transition of sorts. It's just taking place in this very androgynous, very masculine non-binary space. The surgeries helped me to become more feminine, both in terms of body and vibe.
No one wants to talk about that. Everyone's like, ‘If you're a woman, getting plastic surgery is just for the gaze of men, and it has nothing to do with being gender affirming,’ but how the fuck does that make sense? We're only going to allow binary gender, male-to-female trans women to be able to talk about that or to be that or to do that and have it be radical and worthy of praise? To me, that makes no sense.
And I know that is going to get me roasted, but I don't care at this point. I feel like there needs to be more complex conversations around gender and surgery and what it means to do something that is gender affirming. I don't think we, as a culture, should be dismissing what women do as gender affirming just because they happen to be born with a vagina. It's still a radical thing to affirm your gender in my opinion. Women do not have it easy. I’m sorry.
With pleasure,
Yes, Misstrix
P.S. If you enjoyed this interview, check your inbox again on Thursday to access part two of my discussion with Sabrina. In the meantime, please share this portion of our conversation with anyone you think might enjoy reading it. Thank you for your support!